Comments on: Paul’s Conversion or Paul’s Call?

By: andrewbourne

andrewbourne — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:07:47 +0000

You may be interested to note Alan Segal has written a very interesting book called `Paul the Convert` and Beverly Gaventa`s `From Darkness to Light` deals with conversion in the NT. I thought these be useful avenues to explore conversion in NT

By: Mark Goodacre

Mark Goodacre — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:41:54 +0000

Thanks, Jason. Well, I am definitely looking forward to reading your forthcoming article and, of course, hearing more of your research in due course.

By: Jason A. Staples

Jason A. Staples — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:00:14 +0000

'Tis true, Mark. To a large degree, I'm nit-picking your words as an avenue to discuss a mistake that is all too common in our field, especially among Pauline scholars. I tried to make sure I credited you for referencing his self-descriptors while still cautioning against equating these with "Judaism," but on a second read it's a bit harsher than I intended.

By: Mark Goodacre

Mark Goodacre — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 02:52:02 +0000

Thanks for the listening, and thanks for the comments, Jason. It's actually an odd experience to see my words transcribed by Loren and quoted by you, though I am pleasantly surprised to see that they appear reasonably coherent! Since I define what I mean by "his Judaism" by drawing attention to Paul's self-descriptors, which you approve, I think your charge of lack of precision may be a little harsh.

By: Jason A. Staples

Jason A. Staples — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:41:57 +0000

I'm actually getting to another layer beyond the "Judaean" translation, which I think sees the problem but doesn't solve it. The bigger issue is the role of non-Jewish Israelite tribes in the theology of certain elements of apocalyptic early "Israelitism" (to avoid the term "Judaism,"). This hasn't really been addressed adequately in the terminological debate, especially with reference to Paul. I've been working on this problem for about seven years now and hope to have published some of that research within the next year or two.

By: Loren Rosson III

Loren Rosson III — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:31:25 +0000

While I agree that the term "Israelite" should be distinguished from "Jew"/"Judean" (and have blogged about it ad nauseum), I don't see that resolving the issue at hand. In Philip 3:7-11 it is precisely that Israelite identity Paul is comfortable putting aside and even disdaining as "excrement". The term "Judean" could refer to a subset of Israel, but it could also be used synonymously (if usually by outsiders).

Much as I'd like to, I don't see Paul representing his life in Christ as the "natural outgrowth" of his Israelite heritage. There's no sense (on any substantive level) in Galatians or Romans that for him Christ was the "goal" or "natural result" of anything to do with the Torah. Christ didn't come at the end of a process represented by the law in earlier stages, but rather liberated Israel from the law's chaos, if you will. The "fulfillment" of Paul's heritage points to what God intended with that heritage (the consummation of the deity's will and plan), but it doesn't follow that Christianity is effectively its natural outgrowth. In this sense the figure of Abraham becomes fascinating -- a lonely hero in a faithless era, anticipating better things to come.

But I look forward to hearing more of your out-of-the-building ideas about Rom 2 & 11. Bring it on!